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Meaningless · Jabber
Religion - The Confuser.
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I'll try not to make this into a sociological lecture but...On the subject of atheism, every time I think or say aloud 'I don't believe in God' I feel this little frisson of guilt inside, I feel like I SHOULD believe in it, even though I know I don't. Why is this? I think it's a mixture of social conditioning and a basic desire to believe in something. I've always WANTED to believe in God, in a magical, fantastical, meaning-giving sense. When I was little, I often felt scared not to, as if there would be nothing to lean on if I didn't. I'd be on my own. Now I'm older, I've learnt to lean on myself and those around me. I don't need some mythical being to protect me, and so I've plucked up the courage to openly dismiss religion. On the other hand, I still love magic and the unreal. I also want desperately to believe in Santa, in unicorns, in faeries, in ghosts and in Harry Potter ;) Fairy tales make my life complete. It's nice to imagine there's something beyond the mundane out there. The only problem is where make-believe ends and reality begins. My particular problem lies with ghosts. I've always believed in them, I think there is too much evidence not to. I respect them. But then, I get to thinking, if I believe in them, what are they? Souls? Does this mean I should believe in religion as well? And what about fate? Can I believe in things happening for the best, or working themselves out, without believing in pre-determination, which leads to the existence of a controlling force? I don't believe in fate anymore. the future isn't mapped out. But ghosts I still cling onto. I like to think that there is some spark beyond skin and bone that keeps us going (I flirt with reincarnation) but see it in a non-religious way. In a natural way. I certainly don't connect it to a God. If anything, I believe in nature as a controlling force, rather than religion. Then again, is believing nature is all-powerful a kind of religion? Is atheism itself, a non-belief, a religion? It might be if I start trying to convert believers rather than keeping these thoughts to myself! I see atheism as a rebellion against outside control, a breakaway group, and a kind of progress, which in itself is quite a romanticized image. What it SHOULD be, of course, is a disinterest in religion, a disregard, but because so many people currently believe, it's much more active and military than that. I try not to let my non-belief become a big part of who I am. Tolerance is very important to me, and I know you can't be tolerant if you refuse to accept that other people can think differently to you, and have reached different conclusions. From the social conditioning angle, obviously, what your parents and those around you believe has a major impact upon what you think yourself. Strongly religious parents usually pass on their own beliefs to their offspring, who may have ended up believing something completely different had they been brought up in a different setting. I'm a strong believer in the nurture over nature process of socialisation - as in, we don't inherit our characters and beliefs, we learn them through interaction. No baby is born religious. I happened to be brought up in a family who are, in the main, very casual christians. They say they believe in a God, but don't attend church, and certainly wouldn't think of preaching to anybody. My dad is atheist, he sees the whole idea as ridiculous, as a plot to control and manipulate people. I think he is pleased with me for agreeing, so perhaps I've been influenced by his non-belief. On the other hand, it's only since my late teens that I've actually called myself atheist, that I haven't prayed now and then, when worried, before exams and suchlike. So maybe it's time and knowledge thats led me to this conclusion. I sound like a right sel-righteous wanker now, don't I?! I don't mean to be! I'm still very confused, it may take my whole life to sort out what I do and don't believe in. Living with a Religious Studies major has made me think about this more often than I usually would, and it makes my head spin. I'd love to know other peoples opinions :) |
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![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/65395562/10306751) You're not alone - religion is a confusing thing. Personally, I can't imagine being anything other than an atheist. I don't believe that there is any kind of deity or life after death, and doubt very much that I ever would - although, like you, I love the supernatural and would love to believe in magic and the like. I just can't. Part of this is due to my parents, I'm sure, who are both atheists. My dad was brought up by highly Catholic parents and grew up deeply resentful of Christianity because of that - he remembers the constant fear of Hell from a young age: for example, being told in church to feel God's presence, and if you couldn't - which he couldn't, due to the fact that, as he and I believe, there was nothing there to believe - then he was bad and was going to Hell. I dislike the way religion is used to guilt people into acting in a certain way. Why should people do good simply because of a fear about the consequences - why not just do good for its own sake? And I hate the way it divides people. My grandparents - who my family no longer has contact with, because they are cruel, unreasonable and just a little insane - tried hard to stop my dad marrying my mum, due to her atheism. And just look at the way some groups of people - homosexuals, women - are treated in the name of God. Not that this is a Christian thing - it happens in a number of religions. I would like to say that I don't care about someone's religion and that I can be more tolerant than my grandparents ever were with regard to people's beliefs. Sadly, I find this hard to put into practice. Obviously fundamentalism of any kind disturbs me, but I feel slightly uncomfortable around religion in general and Christianity in particular. I have religious friends, and it hasn't ever been an issue, but I think this dislike of organised religion is something I won't find easy to get over. (Again, a family thing. My mum has said - half-jokingly - that she'd rather we got into drugs than religion.)
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/82429224/10495477) You know, we watched a film about Martin Luther last week, and that's more or less what he believed. Except, you know, he did believe in God. But the whole pressure thing. Protestantism has been a litle skewed since then. I think I'm pretty tolerant of people's beliefs so long as their beliefs aren't hurting me and people I know or something I agree with... however, I do feel uncomfortable when people get really... intense? Is that the right word? About their beliefs.
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/93960688/12761074) So do I. Even if they're not pressurizing me or anything, I freak out a little, having been raised in a comfortably non-religious background. You get used to people not caring so much either way. But now, whenever I turn on the Tv (did you see that Qu'ran doc last night - twas fabulous) its all in-your-face, the conflict between beliefs.
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/85075887/14582428) do you think that I guilt you into thinking things because i seriously hope not! it's people like those who your dad grew up with that give us a bad name. the bible tells us you can't convert people by arguing but by being an expression of jesus to others by simply loving them. With the issue of homosexuality, I find it hard to know what I believe about that. there are many churches that are simply gay churches. also the church is full of sin - that is part of the point. a woman (i think she was a prostitute) was going to get stoned (in the bible) and jesus said "he who is without sin cast the first stone" nobody could do it because we have all sined and sometimes the church fails simply because we pretend we are fine. yes i believe that God can heal us and the point of the church is to try and be like jesus and therefore not sin but we all slip up and pretending we don't is a big mistake. but with God;s strength so many amazing thinfgs happn that can't be explained by science or "coincidence" or anything like that. I personally did go through a time where i didn't believe by the end I couldn't think of any other reason for us being here...
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/65395562/10306751) do you think that I guilt you into thinking things because i seriously hope not!
No, not at all! I've never felt that any of my religious friends have tried to pressure me into changing the way I feel or what I believe; it's never been an issue in the slightest. Don't worry. :)
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/85075887/14582428) well I'm glad because i would hate to think that i was as that's soo not what i am trying to do - ever, and i don't want people to think that we do that because that's simply not right (anyway I will shut up now sorry)
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/93960688/12761074) Oh sin, thats also a problem for me. I hate the concept of it. This, for me, is the control factor within Christianity - that if you do anything outside the rules you are seen to have 'sinned' and must sit on the naughty step or go to hell. I know its largely a catholic thing, but the idea still frightens me. The whole concept just goes against the love and tolerance of God I respect you for believing in.
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/93960688/12761074) Said 'for me' far too many times in that comment! Just wanting to highlight that this is my belief and in no way am I presuming to judge or interfer with anyone elses.
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/85075887/14582428) yeah well that's what i'm trying to say. at my church anyway we all know we all sin and we try not to judge others for it. we ask god to forgive us and because Jesus paid the price for us we are forgiven - that's basically it :) Catholics scare me too haha!
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/93960688/12761074) Good morning, debate school. It's too early for me to provide a coherent response so I just want to say i agree with everything you've said Verity! And it's sad about your grandparents, but it sounds like you're better off without them if they behaved so terribly towards your dad. |
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/82429224/10495477) I'd love to give my opinion, but what on..? I agree with the nuture/nature thing - to a certain extent. Definitely, you're not going to be born believing something because somebody has to tell you about what you're going to believe in. However, you might be born with the character that's more susceptible to belief/people telling you to belief/persuasion. Me, I don't really think there is a God, but I do find that it helps to think that some things happen for a reason when things go badly for me. I've observed times in my own life and other people's when things have gone badly and it ends up causing something better. So perhaps there is some reason... *trails off*
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/93960688/12761074) I think I said in an earlier post, that I don't believe humans are born with a character, I think it develops over time. But I agree in that, you might be in a situation that could leave you more susceptible to religious belief. And as for things happening for a reason, I love to think that too. It's reassuring, especially when things go wrong! |
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/85075887/14582428) not really sure what to say really, hmmm i'm just about to post about some amazing things in my LJ so make sure you read that - err that's all I can say really xxxxxx
![[User Picture]](http://l-userpic.livejournal.com/93960688/12761074) Great thing is, religion doesn't have to be an issue if you don't make it into one. It can be discussed rationally. It's just some silly people that end up turning it into conflict. Feel free to say what you like dear. (and I've seen the News Of Joy about G&S. Squee does not adequately express my happiness!) |
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